Wednesday, 8 April 2009

The Sqeak of the Tiger

Some of us will be familiar with the SNP's pricelessly funny and stunningly stupid examples of "independent" countries with which to compare Scotland, countries that we would "like to be like": viz Iceland and Ireland. These wondrous bubble economies were seen as exemplars for Scotland. How wonderful to be the new Iceland, sang Alex in the bath. At least they were seen as exemplars until they collapsed in a tornado of debt, and now their economies are in ruins.

Another SNP slogan bites the dust. to join "Scotland free in '93", we have "Let's do an Iceland" and "Love Ireland, just like us".

Full embarassing* story here:

*For the SNP that is...


  1. Quite right!

    Wee countries like the Republic of Ireland sould not exist. It is surely a matter of time before they come back begging to be allowed to be part of the UK again.

    Keep up the British Nationalism Braveheart!

  2. Anonymous, it is a trait of people who hold ideas by faith to assume that everyone else must do the same. So creationists will insist that believers in evolution do so by faith rather than reason. They lack the imagination to see that there could be a different point of view from their own.

    It's like the old joke about the two louts, roaming Glasgow after an old firm game, who stop a stranger and ask him in threatening voice what religion he is. When the man replies "Muslim", the baffled fools ask "Aye but, are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protrstant Muslim?".

    It's the same with Scottish Nationalists who think that if you disagree with them you must be some other kind of nationalists: they cannot see that it is possible not to be a nationalist, so if you are not a Scottish Nationalist you must be a British Nationalist.

    Personally, I have the same indifference to the Scottish Flag, the British Flag, the European Flag.... they are just symbols of the nation state. Nationalists imbue the nation state with all sorts of emotional and sentimental qualities, but the nation state itself is merely an administrative convenience, a defined area of governence.

    If you have read my profile below you will see my opinion of all natioanlism. If you have read the first post on this blog you will see that nationalists never seem to be able to express a logical reason for their beliefs.

    Which is exactly what you have done... given no reason for your beliefs beyond the mistaken assumption that I'm a nationalist like you. I'm not.

  3. Thanks for that Braveheart - but you make a mistaken assumpion yourself. I vote Labour - and I am one of the few who opposed devolution in the referendum back in '97 - predicting a recipe for chaos between opposing UK and Scottish governments.

    I do wonder why you feel the need to belittle and rubbish a country like the Republic of Ireland in order to bash the SNP. You seem to take some pleasure in the economic difficulties of Ireland, at a time when the UK is facing extremely difficult economic choices too.

    It is precisely because I place myself on the left of centre and because I am more interested in social justice than drawing lines on a map that I cannot help but feeling that you are as guilty of the prejudices as those whom you seek to challenge.

    You refer to your "sorrow" that you spend energy opposing nationalism, and in your first post you ask for an explanation from a nationalist as to why Scottish independece would be so wonderful. Any Nat could twist the question back to you - "please explain why being part of Britain is so much more wonderful than being independent?" You run the risk of falling into the trap of playing the nationalist game by appearing to be primarily driven by being "anti-independence" (which in my opinion does constitute a different kind of nationalism).

    The best case that Labour can make right now is a progressive left of centre policy argument, and showing that the stability of being part of a bigger polity does have some advantages. I really fear that it is far too easy to slip into the language of "Scotland is too poor and too stupid to run its own affairs", look at Ireland - HA HA HA.

    On the whole the SNP are finding out just how difficult government really is - a rude awakening for a party that has never been within a mile of power before. Their inexperience shows.

    I will keep an eye out for your blog, although not for too long if all you are interested in is rubbishing Ireland and slavishly towing a "Gordon Brown is God" line - I just don't see the point.

  4. Anonymous, I don't "rubbish" Ireland, I have ancestors from and relatives in Ireland. I like it. It's just as nice as Scotland. I merely point out that the nats themselves pointed to Ireland as a great example of what "independence" brings.

    That argument is so flawed. Ireland is not pefect and neither is anywhere else. At the moment Ireland is in a bigger mess than we are. Ireland's recent prosperity was built on being part of a greater union, with protection and grants from the larger union to help its econonmy.

    Same with SCotland. We benefit from the union with the rest of the UK.

    To return to your first post (if you are the same anonymous who posted it) I am not UK, Scottish or Irish nationalist. I have no religion. I think things through for myself. I don't think that Scotland is too poor and stupid for anything. You said that, not me.

    It is a phrase I often hear from nationalist posters. Never from anyone else.